I simply sponge off the excess. What? This will help to ensure that all drywall is completely covered. "..2) the kerdi band isn't stuck flat -- the edges in some spots are wavy. With that said, the key benefits of Kerdi Board include: While cement board may be the most common and widely-known tile substrate, Kerdi Board is giving it a run for its money. WATCH HERE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TRLd2HYhbU&list=PLO47JMsdYGrkxM_ZkOc3lMnsVhTqj80bB#justdoityourself #lovingit #p. I still wet the walls first. We just went through a learning curve on the Kerdi and Hardi. The shower tray eliminates the need for a mortar bed. A 1/2-inch thick, 3 x 5 foot sheet weighs just 7-1/2 pounds, compared with 45 pounds for a similar size sheet of cement board. It's not a matter of trusting the Kerdi. Once its applied, the last step is to follow up the waterproof coating with a waterproof sealant. What changes do you suggest to make Bathroom looks more updated? An additional layer of sealant can also be applied on the seams for extra protection and water resistance. For indoor projects and gypsum board, thinset with a latex acrylic modifier is ideal. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. Kerdi can even be installed over drywall. Using Kolmogorov complexity to measure difficulty of problems? ", Signed,Never Hung Kerdi A Day In Her Life. Greenboard is the same as regular drywall. The foam core surrounded by synthetic cloth on both sides and adhered with resin glue is. The back side of the drywall fails and it is just as bad or worse than if it had an issue on the tile side. What I would be most scared off is the fact that no inside or outside corners appear to have been used. The drywall's back side fails, and it's just as bad or worse than it was on the tile side. What can a lawyer do if the client wants him to be acquitted of everything despite serious evidence? Thanks. The mortar does . It costs more but it;s worth it for the ease of install IMO. We mixed the thinset, it wasn't as smooth as the utube video, but it was close, and we gave it ten minutes. RedGard, on the other hand, is a liquid waterproofing membrane made by Custom Building Products. Foam-core tile backing board has two big advantages over other backer boards. We store towels, medicine, toiletry supplies, first-aid gear, massage devices, facial steamers, spare Painting your garage is a great way to improve the look of the space and make the walls easier to clean. Let the mortar dry for 24 hours then test the shower. Cut the Kerdi membrane to size using a utility knife or scissors. Press the Kerdi Membrane into the Thinset Mortar with firm, even pressure to achieve full mortar coverage. Are there tables of wastage rates for different fruit and veg? And how do you keep too much water from interfering with the adhesion in the second scenario?Thanks!! ps, now that you don't need it anymore you can throw that useless cheap piece of crap magnesium float my way. (3ft-3in wide). Putting this stuff on walls is difficult and time . Yes, it is recommended to waterproof cement board, especially if it is going to be used in exterior settings or in places where it will be in contact with water. Cement board, Wedi board, Kerdi board, Hardibacker, Densshield, Durock, Permabase, or Wonder board . Additionally, you can use KERDI-BAND around corners, seams, and joints to help with a waterproof installation. We tried soaking the cement board and applying the kerdi in small sections. Is it plausible for constructed languages to be used to affect thought and control or mold people towards desired outcomes? There are many different types of underlayment to choose from, but they all serve the same purpose. With Wedi products, the compound curves are easy to produce quickly. When having to put it up on the wall or measure it for size, you will find that you can get the exact measurements you need without much trouble. Whether youre installing tile on a floor, wall, or countertop, choosing the right type of substrate, or underlayment, is critical to preventing breaks and cracks in both the tile and the grout. #2. There is no cutting or fitting of boards, and a mortar bed is good for leveling and flattening uneven or out-of-level floors, which are common in old houses. We are still most comfortable with full plumber's pan over the curb, including glue-on preformed corners, and also a second layer (usually Kerdi but can be paint-on) on top of CBU wrap over curb. We ended up sponging the Hardi and wetting and booking the Kerdi (a la wallpaper), and that made the installation go much smoother. We recommend our users to update the browser. A quality underlayment will also serve as a waterproof barrier between the subfloor and the tile surface. Just wondering how effective is the tile on kerdi membrane vs the traditional cement backboard where tiles are glued directly to the drywall? By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. Cement board is the most common and widely-known backer board. If you want a cement board, use Durock or Wonderboard. Also are you saying that you wet ("booking the Kerdi") the Kerdi, as well? There are numerous ways to do this. The shower is ready for tile. Furthermore, if another trade, such as the shower glass installers, makes a mistake then you'll be . This will ensure a strong bond between the KERDI membrane and the substrate. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[580,400],'remodelormove_com-leader-2','ezslot_21',165,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-leader-2-0');Once the seams are sealed, lay down a waterproof coating to the floor and walls of the shower space. Any recommendations? When it comes to installation, a Schlter system is typically easier to install than a cement board, and it also allows for more design freedom as it does not require a traditional waterproof layer. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? Step 8: Allow to dry. Bulk update symbol size units from mm to map units in rule-based symbology. However if installed on drywall it is only protecting one side. Step 3: Apply Thinset. KERDI was developed as a waterproofing membrane to be used in . If installing large format tiles (over 15"), be sure to give the Aquadefense at least 8 hours to cure first. Kerdi Board vs. Cement Board. Cement board is particularly vulnerable to water damage, so waterproofing can help protect it and help it last longer. To line niche shelves, for instance. What Is the Difference Between 'Man' And 'Son of Man' in Num 23:19? On top of that, fiber cement board is even more brittle than standard cement board, so you have to be extra careful to keep screws at least an inch from the edge to avoid breaking the board. Seems like I've been using the full measure of water the bag calls for, plus about 10%.-50 lbs of thinset at a time is too much for an amatuer. Send us an email: , What type of thin-set mortar should I use when installing Schluter, Using a Prefabricated Shower Tray and Ramp. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. However, you do still have to take care to waterproof the seams and the fastener penetrations to create a waterproof assembly. Cut the shower tray to size. Since the existing wall board will be removed, I'd prefer to go a little extra and install a water proof cement board type base so the tile has a solid substrate even if it were to get wet .
Do the prefab Schluter niches like the double unit 12 by 28shelf have a built in pitch to the bottom and middle shelves to drainoff water as shown in niche that you built in that thread? As a contractor, I have been using Kerdi since it came out. Kerdi's systems are fairly reputable. The great thing about Kerdi Board is that it is lightweight and easier to maneuver. By: Author Olin Wade (Remodel or Move Stuff). As such, many homeowners and professionals find themselves wondering whether Kerdi Board or cement board is the better tile substrate. I also used the Kerdi drain. Caulk the gap. Out of curiosity, why are any of you suggesting backerboard at all? It is also essential that cement board joints and fasteners be sealed and waterproofed with the Kerdi Fix sealant to help prevent water from leaking into the wall and floor cavities. HardieBacker with Hydrodefense instead of Kerdi Board? : r/DIY - reddit I think I'll try using the thinned mixture of Redgard and then try the Kerdi membrane again. I have to redo my tub surround due to moisture leaks and failing grout. is the contractor creating a waterproof schluter-kerdi shower? Most cement-based thin-set mortars are suitable; however, it is important to check the manufacturers instructions to ensure that the product is approved for use with Schluter systems. On a vertical surface, very little moisture . The boards come in three-foot by five-foot and four-foot by eight-foot panels, sized for efficient use in bathrooms. About an argument in Famine, Affluence and Morality, Acidity of alcohols and basicity of amines. New England. Jessica considers herself a home improvement and design enthusiast. The Ditra uncoupling design is lightweight, durable, and minimizes the possibility of cracked tile and grout. Cross your fingers and hope it's all OK. Not the best Kerdi Showcase. Hello D Zak! Probably the simplest way is to caulk the gap with 100% silicone or a urethane sealant. When I tried putting up the first sheets, which were only 36" x 39", and even though I had SOAKED the hardi, to the point water was pooling on the floor, the thinset was already drying before I got the Kerdi up, and I couldn't get it to adhere properly no matter how hard I tried. No, you do not need to install a vapor barrier, as Kerdi Board is the vapor barrier. Even the tiling subs have moved away from mortar walls because of the labor cost and lack of craftsmen in the industry. FRC board tends to be more moisture-resistant than gypsum board and is best suited for outdoor projects such as showers or tub surrounds. To install Kerdi Membrane, start by applying Schulter ALL-SET mortar (or similar) to your cement board substrate using a 1/4" x 3/16" V-Notch Trowel. When it comes to tile underlayment, your options can be categorized into three main classifications, each suitable for different tiling circumstances: Although cement board is the most commonly used underlayment for tile, Kerdi board is growing in popularity as a multifunctional tile substrate. Why are Suriname, Belize, and Guinea-Bissau classified as "Small Island Developing States"? Project Type: Tile / Category: Bathroom. Hardi is definitely a "thirsty" substrate but will work, even without a primer of RedGard. Preparing drywall for KERDI membrane requires a few important steps to ensure a successful application. How to prep a shower for tile with Schluter Kerdi - TwoFeetFirst Self-leveling underlayment has many of the same advantages as a dry-pack mortar bed but doesnt require as much skill to install. Problem with very thick cement board/ tile/bullnose edge, Steam Shower Slip Joint Detail - The secret is in the boarding stage. Sure, you can do it.just be sure to "spritz" or wet the hardi thoroughly before.it's pretty "thirsty.". With so many different types of underlayment to choose from, it can be hard to decide which is best for your project. Allow the adhesive to cure for the amount of time recommended by the adhesives manufacturer. #4 You could be adding a good 1000 pounds to your install too. Prime first to create a flat, uniform surface that is free of dust, grease and other debris. Using Kerdi Schlueter membrane with cement board. - Houzz After priming, use an approved adhesive to adhere the KERDI membrane to the drywall, making sure the edges are well sealed and joints are tight.if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[468,60],'remodelormove_com-medrectangle-4','ezslot_12',156,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-medrectangle-4-0'); A successful installation of KERDI requires well-prepared surfaces and a proper application, so take the time to properly prime the drywall before installation. To get the most protection from the cement board, it should be installed in a way that ensures it is waterproof, in addition to being secured properly with the right adhesive and screws. Once you have selected the right sealer, follow the manufacturers instructions and apply a generous, even coat over the entire surface of the Hardie board. Portland cement-based unmodified thin-set mortars are dependent on the presence of moisture for hydration in order to gain strength. Additionally, the use of modified thinset with KERDI could lead to cracks and other issues down the line as the modified thinset can shrink and pull away from the KERDI membrane over time. But a mortar bed does have advantages. Thinset with a latex acrylic modifier is best for interior projects, but if youre installing outdoors, you should use thinset with a polymer modified (PM) compound for greater moisture resistance. When doing so, it is important to ensure that the drywall surface is clean and free of dust, grease, and loose paint. Its essential to protect surrounding wall and floor surfaces from water or moisture damage that can occur in these areas. Or will the Kerdi membrane (with seams taped with kerdi band) prevent each board from moving independently? Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. We think it is the cement board (Durock) sucking the moisture out of the unmodified thinset. A good rule of thumb is 24 hours per inch of thickness, then one more day on top of that to be sure. While cement board is a reliable tile underlayment, it isnt completely waterproof only water-resistant. Best substrate for kerdi membrane - nsbu.treviso-aug.it However, the answer you provided above suggests that the OP could omit a waterproof membrane, that I. x 96 in. I look at ceramic tile as a lifetime-of the house-product, so I use the best material for the job.I prefer to use cement board as the substrate with the Kerdi on top. Cement board (cbu) is not waterproof, but is not damaged by being wet. How to follow the signal when reading the schematic? So long as the seams and joint areas are properly prepared, the panels can also provide waterproofing. In the worst case, it's OK to cut the Kerdi, remove the damaged section, scrape up the thinset from the areas, and set a new piece of Kerdi. But that doesn't address your question, so it's just a comment, not an answer as such. Why unmodified thinset with kerdi? - qyvxl.dixiesewing.com taping and prepping cement board for tile - Home Improvement Forum RedGard can be used on a wide range of interior and exterior surfaces. Redgard is a similar product. The taping knife at a low angle makes an enormous difference, and I'm very grateful for that hint. Additionally, all thin-set should be allowed to cure for 24 hours before tiles are installed. I set the Kerdi with my hands, pat it into the thinset with my hands, then go over it with a 4" taping knife held at a low angle to embed the Kerdi in the thinset. Kerdi membrane can be used on cement board, drywall, and, as you may have guessed- greenboard. It is important to seal any imperfections in the drywall to ensure a long-lasting installation and to minimize water infiltration. Liquid membrane over cement board | Terry Love Plumbing Advice Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. When cleaning thinset off of Schluter membranes, the manufacturer recommends using a wet sponge and taking care to avoid any scoring or inconsistencies on the surface of the membrane. kerdi membrane over osb It is a pliable waterproofing membrane that also doubles as a vapor retarder. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1','ezslot_27',168,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1-0');if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1','ezslot_28',168,'0','1'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1-0_1');.narrow-sky-1-multi-168{border:none!important;display:block!important;float:none!important;line-height:0;margin-bottom:15px!important;margin-left:auto!important;margin-right:auto!important;margin-top:15px!important;max-width:100%!important;min-height:250px;min-width:250px;padding:0;text-align:center!important}Waterproofing should also be done on other areas in the shower as well such as the corners, window sills and other areas where water can easily accumulate. When installing KERDI with unmodified thin-set mortar over particularly dry and porous substrates, it is recommended to wet the substrate first, in order to help prevent premature drying or skinning of the thin-set mortar. This is a bit difficult to answer as it depends on the particular application for the floor system. For the floor I make a dry mix mud base and then the Kerdi membrane. Modified thinset adhesive is a premixed product that contains latex or acrylic components which make it quite a bit more flexible than regular thinset adhesive and therefore better suited to some applications. the cost of the tile job. Depending on your project and the specific cement board you are using, you will want to select a thinset appropriate for both.if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[468,60],'remodelormove_com-large-leaderboard-2','ezslot_15',158,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-large-leaderboard-2-0'); The two primary criteria to help guide your selection are the type of cement board you are using and whether you are installing it indoors or outdoors. See the foam bench and the corners. Need help liner vs liquid membrane question. Additionally, all seams should be sealed with Kerdi Fix and covered with fleece. First Kerdi can be installed on drywall or cement board. Being a Los Angeles resident, Jessica spends a lot of her time looking for her next DIY project and sharing her love for home design. We apply the thinset the recommended trowel, can't remember what size off the top of my head, in small sections and by the time my husband hands my the piece of membrane the thinset is not skinned over but certainly dry. It is designed to form a waterproof layer between cement board and tiles, helping create a watertight installation. How do I align things in the following tabular environment? Yes, Hardie board needs to be waterproofed. Drywall under Kerdi would have been a better choice. I like to use a garden sprayer to keep the thirsty Kerdi wet. Aquadefense is approved by IAPMO for use as a shower pan liner, but be sure to check your local building codes, as some areas of the country still require the PVC liner. Schluter says that the Kerdi membrane and tile can be installed over standard gypsum wall board without any problems. see Prop 65 WARNINGS. Fiber cement board is available in 1/4-inch and 1/2-inch thicknesses. Do new devs get fired if they can't solve a certain bug? Kerdi Membrane Over Plywood ThePlywood.com Kerdi Membrane not sticking to cement board - John Bridge . Ditra is a 1/8-inch thick polyethylene membrane with a layer of anchoring fleece on the underside and a grid of square cavities on top. On the downside, the cement boards are heavy, somewhat difficult to cut and can leave abrasive sandy crumbs that can damage tubs and shower bases if youre not careful. A 1/2-inch thick, 3 x 5 foot sheet weighs just 7-1/2 pounds, compared with 45 pounds for a similar size sheet of cement board. Kerdi really offers very little advantage over hardiboard plus membrane. Waterproofing cement board is relatively simple and there are several different waterproofing products available. If I go the kerdi membrane route, do I still need to tape the joints before installing the kerdi membrane . There's a really great manual (with diagrams) that makes this all easier to understand. Hardibacker is a VERY "thirsty" material that sucks the moisture out of the mortar VERY quickly and I don't like it. Finally, it is important to remember that any thin-set that has been exposed to moisture must be replaced. Cement board is typically used in wet areas, such as bathrooms and areas with a lot of moisture, because it is waterproof and provides a level of protection from water damage and long-term moisture exposure. This makes Kerdi Board suitable for a wide variety of interior applications, including kitchen countertops. If youre not careful, the boards can also leave behind abrasive sandy crumbs that can cause damage to your shower base or tub. Since my guys and I will be doing this for the first time next week, I 'd like to take advantage of your 'learning curve.' 120 sq feet including the floor. I've seen preferences regarding HardieBacker and the cement board products such as Wonder Board. Following these steps will help ensure that your shower space is properly sealed, and thus that the cement board is well protected from moisture. Kerdi Membrane Over Greenboard (Is It Recommended?) Hang the cement boar. We don't expect people to master this and in fact I know maybe two guys in my area (live in big city) that could do this. The tub flange can really be a pain in the butt when installing a tile tub surround. Is it ok to fasten a shower surround to Schluter Kerdi curb? It fell right off? I'm guessing he put a 2x6 across for the curb? I also used a larger sized trowel than the one recommend by Schluter. How should I transition between cement board floor and alcove tub? Building Panel: Price $ 119 00 $ 202 06 $ 279 00. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. What do you mean it doesn't adhere? Dean, our tile consultant, says glass mat backer board is his first choice due to the ease of installation, cost, and because his workers like it. 1. We were using a 3/16 x 5/32 trowel, probably to small. Ultimately, the decision between a Schlter system or a cement board comes down to the particular application and the goals the user has for the floor system. vegan) just to try it, does this inconvenience the caterers and staff? Both may be effective substrates, but Kerdi Board boasts significant advantages. Sealing the tub flange for tile: 3 methods - DIYTileGuy Set ceramic and stone tile over the KERDI membrane with unmodified thin-set mortar, including large format tiles. A complete schluter shower kit is like $700-$900 depending on the size - this includes the pitched foam shower pan. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. A successful tile installation largely depends on the substrate that the tile is attached to. 3. Step 2: Determine the room's center. When applying the thin-set, it should be applied in such a way that it fully fills any empty space between the Tile and Schluter product and is solid enough to support the weight of the tiles being installed. How to Install Kerdi Membrane - YouTube